Somebody flashes you the peace sign. What do you do? I usually try to smile it off and walk away, because, after all, not everything is worth fighting about. But it makes me uneasy, and sometimes I have an almost irresistible urge to flash them back a war sign.
My daughter asked me once why I hate the peace sign. “It just means ‘peace’ ,” she said. “And peace just means not having any war. What’s wrong with that?”
I tried to explain it to her. “That’s not what it really means. People who talk about how peace is their ultimate value really mean that if somebody does something bad to you, you shouldn’t retaliate. Everybody wants peace. But the peace sign stands for peace at any price. It means that you agree in advance to let the bad guys win.”
My daughter didn’t see it that way. “No, that’s just what the stupid people think. It doesn’t mean that. It just means that you don’t want anyone to ever do anything bad, so there won’t ever have to be any war. It doesn’t mean that the good guys shouldn’t fight. It’s for nobody to fight.”
“That’s not possible,” I said, but she was not convinced.
Recently, I discovered this song by Leslie Fish that explains it so much better than I ever could:
I live with a chimpanzee. He is very bright and he regularly puts me to the test. I set down rules about how we will live. The rules have consequences attached. Every few days, Bow puts the rules to the test. What is he testing? He wants to know if the consequences still hold. As soon as he ascertains that they do, he settles down and is very good. But if one day he tested me, and the consequences no longer held, then all hell would break loose.
There are mathematical models that explain why war is necessary. Turning the other cheek does not work. The best strategy is called “Tit for Tat”, which is another way of saying “an eye for an eye.” When people know that they can’t get away with behaving badly, then they quite often choose to behave well, instead. But you can never let your guard down, because every so often, just like Bow, they want to check that the rules still hold. This is why there can never be a war that ends all wars. Every new generation has to be prepared to fight again.
But wouldn’t it be great if all wars would cease permanently? No, it would not, as Leslie Fish’s song demonstrates. Eternal peace would mean slavery, if it were possible at all. But it’s not possible, because humans have free will. And so do chimpanzees and dogs and lions and wolves and hyenas. Eternal peace, without complete annihilation of all life, is not an option. And thank goodness for that! Who would want to live in such a world? Not Bow, not me, and probably not even my daughter!
The next time someone flashes you a V, when you know they don’t mean victory, you go right ahead and flash them back a W! They’ll know what you mean!
© 2011 Aya Katz
Oh, NICE video, Aya! Where did you get some of those images? Amazing, really.
–Leslie < )O(
Thanks, Leslie! It’s a great song! I found most of the still images on the Wikipedia. I wanted to be able to represent more than a single culture’s god of war, and it’s amazing how very many and how varied are mankind’s war gods. But not all of them have good images that survived. Other images came from a free image site in the UK. The Nagasaki bomb sequence and the chimp with an AK-47 came from other YouTube videos, and hopefully this falls into the “fair use” exception, as I believe your song added value to the whole!
The credits for the images are found in the video description on Youtube. Thanks again for letting me use your song!
I am overly pacifist because I have no interest in fighting. I would walk away if a battle ensued, and in a way I find this strong cookie. Being away from chaos and strife makes me feel strong. I realize war is inevitable, but in our modern US we are getting way too involved in others affairs. I would prefer we went back to not engaging in every foreign war. We really did not need to be involved in Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq. What are we still doing there? Why do we need bases in so many different countries. The people of Okinawa are not happy with are base there, and we should leave. I would like to see more self-determination of peoples, and less money spent on the US playing world empire. George Washington had it right by saying we should not be fighting wars of foreign entanglement. There were some necessary wars like World War II, but every one since was not in our best interest. This does not mean I am 100% against war, sometimes it is necessary, but of course those other countries react when we invade theirs. As fir the peace sign, I really do not pay attention to it. Just like the gangster sign some people make, I just think some people need a sign to make them feel better.
As for my spelling, sorry. Wish I could edit that.
Sweetbearies, thanks for your comment. I agree that there are times when walking away from a fight is the right thing to do. Not everything is worth fighting over, and the signs and gestures that people make to denote social affiliation are certainly not worth it. We have to pick out battles carefully.
Those of us who are not by nature particularly aggressive, like you and me, need to watch out, however, that we don’t make ourselves easy victims. It is not always possible to walk away from a fight, and the best way to let people know in advance that they don’t want to start a fight with us is to advertise our past victories. It’s not boasting. It’s a form of self-defense.
I’m not suggesting that we should look for pretexts to start wars, or that it doesn’t matter whether a war is just or not. If someone attacks us, and then, because we are angry, we attack an innocent third party that had nothing to do with it, this is a very bad move on our part, because we stand to make more enemies, and we are not avenging the wrong. This has happened in the recent past, and it’s regrettable.
Nevertheless, understanding that war is sometimes absolutely unavoidable is the first step in keeping the peace — a peace that does not mean slavery, submission or shame.
All I will say is it is good there are other people interesting in defending themselves. I would not make a good soldier as I would run away :). Have no problem with a country defending itself when it is being invaded. I just have bigger problems with are need to keep military forces in countries that do not want us there.
Sweetbearies, I appreciate much of what you say here. I, too, am grateful for the help of people who are better warriors than I am. I, too, regret our involvement in places where our presence was not required and that did not raise arms against us. What I said was directed at other people who believe that violence is never right. I certainly recognize that not all of us are equally suited to be warriors.
I don’t think I have a formulated opinion on the issue on this stage of my life, Aya. But I certainly see your point 🙂
Misha, good to see you here! I can’t imagine not formulating an opinion about this!
Well, I don’t agree with you regarding peace and the peace sign, but I’ll turn the other cheek! ;D
As far as primates and groups of primates testing the waters to see if the rules still hold, yes that will always happen. How do we respond? A secure, responsible, caring parent/leader responds firmly, consistently, and non-violently. An insecure, irresponsible, abusive parent/leader lashes out with anger and violence.
We can assert the fact that the rules still hold without violence and without war.
Suzanne, thanks for your comment. I knew in advance that you felt this way, but I am glad that we are finally getting to talk about this.
Bow is disciplined with water. He is hosed down, and it does him no damage, but he does not like it, which is the point of a punishment. Is it violent? I don’t know. Since I’m not opposed to violence, I don’t find that question as crucial as some other people do. It certainly is not pleasant for him, but it is a lot less damaging than what he has done to others.
I think as a parent the duty is to bring the child safely to adulthood, at which point the child can take responsibility for himself. Many parents do children a disservice by not preparing them for the life that lies ahead. It requires balance to devise a punishment that will be effective, but will not cause permanent damage. This varies depending on the child, for no two are the same. Some are very sensitive and others are thick skinned. It would be as much a disservice to the child to punish too lightly as it would be to choose a punishment that is too harsh.
But how do adults respond to other adults who are breaking their rules? It is the same in every primate society, including our own: they respond with violence, and the degree of violence depends on the severity of the infraction.
When you delegate the defense of your country to the armed forces or the defense of your city to the police, you are still responsible for what they do in your service. A lot of people are under the impression that they have never engaged in violence and have never condoned it, when the very laws they support are being upheld at the point of a gun.
Is anger always a bad emotion? Not when it allows you to work up the courage to stand up to someone who is your physical superior and who is trying to bully you into submission.
Nature gives us many feelings: love, compassion, lust, affection. Anger is just one of them, and it is not a good idea to always repress it, or it will jump out and bite you when you are least aware.
Which is not to say that self-control is a bad thing. Control your anger, but harness its strength. Many a violent act is committed with dispassion and even compassion, while many a pacifist is consumed with anger.
We definitely travel in different social circles . I cannot remember the last time I’ve seen anyone use the so called peace sign.
Violence is never a pleasant thing. But sometimes there’s no other choice and it’s necessary. Leslie’s song does a wonderful job on two fronts. Showing that war and resistance defend freedom, and that sometimes you shouldn’t get what you think you want.
Particularly appropriate in these times when Muslim fundamentalists are expanding their jihad and governments are appropriating more and more freedoms on a daily basis.
Scott, good to see you here! It’s been a long time. And we definitely travel in different social circles.
Unfortunately, when you are an ape language researcher, most of your friends are pacifists and liberals, because the conservative side of the spectrum is not too interested in what you are doing. This does not mean that I don’t appreciate my friends’ support, but I kind of miss my other friends who are on the other side of some of these issues.
I agree, Leslie’s song does a great job demonstrating both points. No freedom without the ability to fight tyranny, and no peace for those who shun war.
What true, terrific thoughts — and what a true, terrific song!
Thanks, Kate!
Hosing Bow down is appropriate because he is smart enough to understand that it is a logical consequence, it doesn’t hurt him, and it is probably effective.
Anger is a valid and useful emotion. What we choose to do with it is what separates appropriate response from abusive reaction.
War is abusive reaction. Killing innocent people, destroying infrastructure and the environment are always wrong. This earth belongs to all of us and we are ultimately one people. Destroying someone else’s part of it and killing their citizens is cutting off our own nose to spite our face.
Diplomacy, economic sanctions, compromise, and cooperation logical and natural consequences, and they are always better answers than war. We are not in a position to punish and discipline other nations.
While adult humans may be in a position to punish and discipline children and animals in their care, logical and natural consequences are always more effective. Logical and natural consequences don’t inspire retaliation and do inspire growth, learning and independence.
Suzanne, thanks for continuing the discussion. I’m glad you don’t think I am abusive of Bow. There are so many different opinions about the issue of discipline, and one never really knows how someone else will take things. I do the very best I can under the circumstances, and Bow accepts the rules and does not hold a grudge. As soon as he’s back to appropriate behavior, neither do I.
It’s not just humans who discipline each other and other animals. Chimpanzees discipline other chimpanzees. What do you think the natural consequence of biting someone is? Without intervention or retaliation, what could possibly act as a deterrent?
While I don’t want to get into the politics of specific current international disputes, I will say that the only way a nation can maintain its independence is through warfare. The better you are at it, the less likely it is that you will actually be called upon to engage in it. But the moment the enemy suspects that you cannot or will not defend yourself is the moment that you will have to stand the test of fire.
No, people who give you a “peace sign” DON’T know what is meant by three fingers forming a “W” …
Kate, they may or may not know the first time they see the sign, but if it’s repeated enough times in situations where the context is clear, they will soon learn. All signs tend to be learned without effort, if the context is right.